FRAMES Photography Podcast
FRAMES Photography Podcast
Samantha Isom
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In today's episode, W. Scott Olsen speaks with Samantha Isom, a photographer and filmmaker whose work moves fluidly between portraiture, travel, lifestyle, underwater, and brand storytelling, with a polished, vivid, human-centered feel.
You can visit Samantha's website here.
Find out more and join FRAMES here.
With sharks. I was in Hawaii. It's there's some tiger sharks. And I my one of my dive buddies, Christina, she kept she's gonna listen to this. It's funny. She's like, Why are you so afraid to see a shark? Oh, I hope we see a shark. I was like, girl, don't jinx us, what's wrong with you? I don't want to see a tiger shark. Are you smoking rocks? Like, what are you doing? Don't scare me. Don't freak me out. And I thought, this is silly. She's got like a thousand and plus, God knows how many dives. She's an instructor. And I was like, I need to get this figured out. So I said, Let me go dive with a bunch of sharks on purpose.
SPEAKER_00This photography podcast is brought to you by Frames, a quarterly printed photography magazine. Here is today's host, W. Scott Olson, with another fascinating conversation.
SPEAKER_01Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to another podcast from Frames Magazine. My name is Scott Olson, and today, folks, my lord, today I am really looking forward to today's conversation because a lot of us out in the world, we take good photographs, and a lot of us also are doing that extra special something. We're taking photographs for good. In other words, not only are we pleasing clients or coming up with art, but we've looked at ourselves in the mirror and we've said, what in the world am I doing with my work about my work that I can go an extra step with? And those of us that are going that extra step, my God, I'm proud to be part of that community. And there is nobody doing a better or a more interesting job with this than Samantha Isom, our guest today. Samantha is a photographer, a director, a DP. She's a faculty member at the School for Visual Arts. She's a content creator. She's got awards from Communication Arts, the International Photography Award. I mean, the list just goes on. American photographic artists and stuff. She is a scuba diver, a mountain climber. Uh, without lessons, she's been mountain skiing, uh, sailor in storms. I she's even, believe it or not, folks, a fan of Doctor Who, something close to my heart. Um, and she is the founder of BrownPassport.com. There is so much to talk about today, so much work. And you start digging into a little bit. And you know, one of the things that really impressed me was right up top on Samantha's online presence, there's a little tagline. It says, I make things gorgeous. There is a generosity, both in product and in spirit here, that I am really looking to unpack and hear the stories about. Samantha, welcome to the podcast today. How's life for you over there?
SPEAKER_03Aloha. Hey, and no, I'm not over here in Hawaii. I did spend time there, so that part never left. Aloha, aloha. It's very heartfelt. Welcome, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I I I am looking forward to this. Samantha, your work is is just rock and roll work. I'm I'm looking at this stuff, and there is so much to unpack here. But I I want to go back to sort of the beginnings because I mean, you've got a story about, you know, you're 17, you're going to New York, and you're just all set to be a photographer for Rolling Stone. But you dig a little bit back. No, sorry, you know, your mom was given a brownie camera, and you say that, you know, she began documenting every life, every waking moment of life, and you were soon to follow. But then you got into music. Then you got tell me about your mom looking at you and saying, Hey, here's here's this cool little gadget, and the kid showing up in New York, calling up Rolling Stone and saying, Hello, I'd like to work for you.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes. You see it. There's uh I'm gonna try to not be too long-winded on it.
SPEAKER_01Uh go for go for it.
SPEAKER_03I thought everybody took pictures of their life, actually. So I didn't really know that. And then you get made fun of in high school a little bit like, oh, um uh not made fun of terribly, but just a little bit like, oh, why are you? You know, you take it always taking these pictures. It's probably their own lack of being comfortable being photographed, which I didn't know that is just whatever, you know, a kid basically. But um music was always my first thing, if I'm honest. It's just that photo because of my mom. I'm looking actually now, as we're talking at my eight millimeter digital transfer machine, because she shot somebody gave her that brownie, but I I somebody also gave her um or no later after the brownie after shooting, she told me she bought this, um, an eight millimeter camera. And then later my dad got the super eight. They both took pictures a lot, but my mom did it more so, I would say. And then um, I just thought it was just a part of life. I didn't even think about it as something to do. I thought about it as something that you do. Does that make sense? You know, like yeah, it does. Yeah, so um I was a trumpet player because my I I heard, I saw it in the house. I liked Chuck Bangione that gives away my age, I guess. But you know, I um I I liked I I just was into music and and and things didn't really we didn't really have it like that to get lessons. Uh and it wasn't around that kind of an environment where people were like, oh, private lessons and private for anything. We just what we had was public school and out on the front of the house. That's it. You know, nobody had camps and all that. So later on, um is high school came about. I was still taking pictures, obviously, as I mentioned, because I always had this camera, whether it's a 110 or a 35, whatever we had at that time, was all film. Then it was just kind of I just started playing music. I like new wave bands and started playing keyboards and skipping lunch to play the piano from music that I heard. I grew up near Philadelphia. So music that I heard on a local Philadelphia station that was of classical music and loved it. Didn't really know what I was playing. The music director heard that and said, This is a crime. You're a musical prodigy. We need to create a class for you. Like, so that's how I actually got to college, but it this is where it flipped. So it was like, you're gonna go to school for music, which is what I wanted to do. I actually wanted to be like a musician, you know, a pianist. When you see the life of that, and I thought, I'm far too social to be in this room eight hours a day. That might not work. And then I thought, okay, this isn't, and I anyway, because I taught myself, I wasn't a music, um, I was a music ed major, not a performance major, because they wouldn't let me in with not having the I could play the pieces, but I couldn't read it. So I had to learn yeah, I played by ear. So it I had to know all that. I graduated, but it was like, oh, I have a music ed degree. I'm gonna do this concert, and then I'm music is still who I am, and it's my number one love, but I probably not gonna do that for a living. But all through college, it was taking pictures. That was the thing, because I thought, like I said, that everyone did that and it was normal. I found out quickly that was not the case. Took classes, every single class that that school, Trenton State College, offered, and anything related to photography, I took. So I had like an unofficial minor, you might say.
SPEAKER_01But what what what about all the hours in the dark room?
SPEAKER_03I mean, if if if I spent a lot of time in the dark room, I did, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but but if you stepped away from music because there's too much time in the practice room, I know. Didn't you didn't you just go across the hall and spend too much time in the dark room?
SPEAKER_03Yes, actually. That is what happened. So it is. I you know, I was into going to nightclubs, so I would go out. I wasn't drinking or anything, I just wanted to dance and like be social. So I didn't sleep that much, probably. You know what I mean? But I did go out and take pictures for nightclubs and like of the parties and of all that. And so you'd get in for free. I was a radio DJ in college, so I was able to get like in, I would sign myself up to shows and things. And then later in the later, when I got out of school, I was like, oh damn, like I can't get in these parties for free anymore. So I started taking pictures for them.
SPEAKER_01I mean you you you and I have got a little bit of almost shared history there. Um, when I started college at the University of Illinois in Chicago, so we were almost neighbors. Um, I had a little radio show there as well. But did you know your pictures were good?
SPEAKER_03I didn't. I so again, high school. Well, later I did. I didn't at first. So high school, I mentioned all that, and I was taking pictures of everything. And I actually did a dark room thing then. I forgot about that in high school. And then um, like this one photographer, official school photographer, had a little workshop and I went to that. But as you mentioned at 17, calling Rolling Stone, that did happen. I did call them and I and I got the clemped and I hung up. So I didn't go there. I called them and I couldn't believe they answered. Because this was like, you know, it was a time, it was different. You know what I mean? It was just, I don't know, they answered the phone. And so I thought, holy shit, like I want to go, but I didn't have confidence enough in myself to do it. And I only lived probably two and a half hours, maybe three with traffic away. But I didn't, it just seemed like, how the hell am I gonna get there or be there every day, all day, and then not be in I didn't know what an internship was. Like I just didn't nobody could afford that where I lived. That wasn't a conversation. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01So you called them, you said, you know, this is me, this is what I want to do. And they act, they actually said, come be an intern.
SPEAKER_03I think that's again, it's a long time ago. I I don't think it was an official offer, but it was mentioned. I'll say that it was mentioned as a potential option. I don't know how serious they were. I didn't get too deep in that call. I just remember being like, I don't know what to do. And I don't even think I told anybody like about it at that time because I didn't know what it was and I got scared. And I thought, I don't know, I'm not gonna be able to do that again. It just it's it's a shame because you think it shows actually goes to show representation matters, and you never know the influence that you can have on a person. And I didn't have I loved folks that were around me. This is no comment on them, but they were not in that world and they didn't understand or didn't know. There's no way. So it was go be a teacher, go be uh go to if you can get into college, go to law school, go do something that we know, you know what I'm saying, that we know about, or that you can work for somebody else, that they'll they'll they'll pay you a good salary and you can do that. No one thought about like go to New York and go be an artist. That was like that was completely out, even though they knew I was into music and they got scared at that too. They were just terrified, but I thought, you'll be a music teacher. This is great. You work out of school, you know what I mean? And then when I said I wasn't gonna be a teacher, they freaked out. I was like, oh God, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I think anybody going into the arts has that same sort of battle against common wisdom that we have to fight because you're gonna be a dancer, you're gonna be a painter, you're gonna be an actor. Yeah, sure. How are you gonna pay your mortgage?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I wasn't good with money. Like I we didn't have money, and I didn't understand money, and I just said, This is what I do, and I won't be able to breathe without it. So either there is no choice. I still feel like that.
SPEAKER_01A lot of your work with musicians, a lot a lot well, a lot of your work, even up to today, really, you know, is under the broad umbrella of portraiture. Um you are trying to bring out something deep, um not only environmental portraiture, you know, putting them in context, um, but just the the classic sort of headshot that gets to the soul. And and you've you tell a story about you you were doing some work for a wedding photographer that actually taught you how to direct and and taught you how to bring something more out of portraits. Uh tell me what was going on there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was huge, actually. That that that might be emotional. That was huge. That was huge. I'm I can't even tell me the story. So that was a couple things. So while I was in school, I mentioned, you know, I was still taking pictures, and you asked if I knew if I was good. The confidence I just shared with you, I I was good, I think I knew internally, but I was too scared to be confident about it. Meaning, like uh, there's a whole other existential thing that I won't get into here as to why I think that is, but um, I had like the confidence knocked out of me, I'll put it to you that way, in a way.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03So um it took a long time to get have it now, but I had to get it back. So when I was in college, there was about a mile away from this was when I was in Trent, Trenton State, New Jersey, but when I was about a mile away, Moto Photo is like most ridiculous name ever. One hour motophoto, right? Isn't it? Is it not? It's a great name. It is, it's like it's fantastic. One, it's a chain, but you know, you franchise it, right? So um, oh, it was Scott and Nick. Scott and Nick owned um Moto Photo on like in I forgot the name of the road, but it was in Ewing Township. Okay, and that changed my life. Um, it's so I walked over there and I said, I want to work for you. And I knocked on their door probably every day. And I thought I just started getting upset. He's like, What the? We're not hiring. Why do you keep asking? I said, because you know, you're a photo lab. I've worked, I've worked in dark rooms and I go to Trenton State, I need a job. Uh in the summer, I work at Great Adventure, but I'll I was working like three or four jobs. Like I said, we didn't have a lot. So I was just like, I need a job, I need another job. There's other ones, not enough hours, or it's not enough, you know. And I was like, but I want to do so, I have to do something that lines up with what I like. I liked roller coasters, I worked at Great Adventure. Wintertime, they're closed, you know, and I wouldn't or whatever. Even sometimes when that I would work on my days off because I was just like, I got I gotta have a job. So I said, I have to do something that I really am close to and that I love and I like taking pictures, and I feel like I could learn something here. That guy finally said yes. It was Nick, he was 50% owner. He finally said yes and he shot weddings. He shot portraits, they had a portrait studio inside a one-hour moto photo, and he was good. He was really good. Scott was like more the lab guy, and I learned a lot from him on really fast how to like how to read color on negatives. He taught me that. Even though it was a machine, it was the kind of they had an old school machine. They didn't want to pony up for like the one with the screen on it, even though those were out at that time. He said, No, you can read the negative. I'm really thankful for that. He taught me how to read, I knew how to read like black and white negatives, but he really taught me how to do that and how to go fast because we were under the it's a one-hour place, but you're manually making these changes because the machine is obviously not always correct, especially that. Right. And they had an old one, right? So, so an old machine. So Nick showed me, he shot like family portraits, which is something I really didn't want to do. He did weddings and family portraits, but I tell you what, that brother could shoot dogs, kids. You could shoot that, you could do anything, man. If you could shoot a wedding, you honestly can shoot everything. It's product, it's architecture, it's flowers, it's whatever. You know, it's kids, it's dogs, it's people, old people, young people, wheelchair, everything. It's screaming people, it's like it's people fighting. It's like I said, holy crap! And he taught me how to do that, and I thought that was really cool. And because he owned the lab, we were unlimited on how much we could shoot. So I got a little bit spurled, if you know what I mean. I was like, wow, I could just go. And then he also shot corporate, so he would then start bringing me out. He brought me on as an assistant, but then had me start to shoot for him. The other chains got wind of that, even though there it was the same chain, the one in South Jersey Moto Photo, but a different owner from the franchise. Right, right. And that guy had higher end wedding clientele than Nick. Even though I think Nick was better, it somehow Nick did just hit a ceiling, and that guy had a higher clientele. He hired me for some jobs. Then I met another guy in South Jersey. That guy hired me, and it came that then that guy, Paul Hendry, he really taught me a lot too in a way to shoot. It was mostly portrait-based, but very fast way uh to do it with meaning, and it started with weddings.
SPEAKER_01Well, tell me what the magic is here, because I I've seen a lot of wedding, you know, photography that is mundane, you know, sort of you know, cookie-cutter kind of stuff. And I've seen a lot of stuff that just leaps up off the page. And and when I was hearing you tell this story in another setting, you know, you you said he taught you how to shoot portraits and how to direct. Um, how much tell me what you mean by how to direct when you're doing weddings or or portraits, other than lift your chin, turn your cheek, you know, that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_03Nick was better at the directing. Paul, Paul was just fun. So they both taught me how to direct. Nick did it consciously. Paul did it by being himself. Okay. I didn't realize that until I just shared that with you. R.I.P. Paul Hendry. He we lost him.
SPEAKER_01We discovered something too. Yes.
SPEAKER_03But but what is so so it with Nick, I'm still not huge into shooting kids and dogs and stuff like that. But he what I learned from the way he was doing it was the tricks he would do. He was like, oh, well, if the kid is this age, do this and that, because they're not going to listen to him, move left and right. And the thing is that transcends to adults, because if you just tell an adult move left and right, sometimes they do, but if you have a conversation with them and intermittently say move left and right, you get what their energy is from the conversation. Okay. Right? So instead of just waiting, if you're shooting models, because it worked, I don't do that, but I worked in fashion for a long time as digital tech and all that, you know, photo assistant and everything. And I would see it, the talent is gonna do what the talent is gonna do. And a lot of times the fashion photographers are really like architects, they will build the architecture and have them move their body in a shape or a form or the clothes to match the architecture. But with portraits, it's not about the architecture, it's about the person inside to me. So I do, you know, if you're doing corporate stuff, you have to tell people kind of you gotta get it, you're under the gun. Probably shouldn't use that terminology in 2026, but you're in, yeah, but you're a little bit like, oh, left and right and do those things, and they may or may not want to show who they are. I try to, I usually try to sneak some of those in though, anyways. Um, but if you're really just sitting back and talking to people, hanging out and joking around, like actually being genuine, people are themselves. That's what you want, that's what I want. I want them to be themselves. So I think that that's why I brought the model thing up. It's a very different approach. And I learned some of that from Nick and and and from Paul because Paul was really himself in the way he was with people. They just naturally showed who they were, whereas whereas Nick was more calculated about it. So I do a little bit more like Paul than Nick, but I learned some Nick's tricks for when I need him.
SPEAKER_01I listening to you talk, it's there's almost a contradiction in in approach because sometimes you are simply being receptive. You know, you you're you're listening, you know, you you're finding out where their energy is. Sometimes you are being much more um directive. You're saying, you know, I'm going to put my sensibility onto you. Um it it is that actually a contradiction, or is it two sides of the same course?
SPEAKER_03I like to show people who they who they actually are, unless they're playing a character. Then I I mean to say if you have an act, then I would have someone as to who their character is and I would draw from that, right? Or I would set the tone for that character. Okay. It could be what they're wearing, or it could be the way that I'm joking with them, or it could be the way they put their hat or a flower or something on their jacket or whatever. But if it's them themselves, and I try to really just talk to them and get them, and it's not always I try to get like a hat, like sometimes a laughing one, but sometimes but also one that's not like more um the opposite of that. Uh, because sometimes people will laugh out of being uncomfortable. So you got to get them into a place when they're comfortable enough not to laugh anymore.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay. And then you see another side of them. So I don't think it's too much of a contradiction. I think it's more like I really try to get to know the person and show who they are and get comfortable in that. I do say, you know, hey, head left or head right, if they're so comfortable that they're leaning in a way that could be not awkward enough to look cool, if you know what I'm saying. It's just awkward just to look awkward, but not awkward enough to look cool. Then all league is exaggerate that awkwardness to push it to cool, or I I remove it.
SPEAKER_01You know, you you have so many, so many cool stories. And, you know, I I know, you know, so you in a little bit here in your life, you're gonna move to Chicago, do a lot of product work, you're gonna move to Miami, you're gonna do fashion work. You finally do get back to uh New York City. And and you have made a point, and and I think this is a point which is really important for all of us, no matter where we are uh in our career. You know, you say, you know, shoot what you're meant to shoot, but you've also got to shoot to keep the lights on. You know, if you're gonna be a professional photographer, you actually need clients. Um and in the in that whole mix, you've got a great story uh about being in a bookstore and and and opening a book on how to be an assistant, and someone walks up to you. So, you know, tell me about serendipity. Tell me about the changes from product to fashion to, you know, finally um where you are. Well, not to where you are today, we're gonna get there in a second. But there's a there's a pogo stick approach. There's a bunch of leaps coming up in your life.
SPEAKER_03The wedding thing was one of those serendipitous things because, like I said, well, I don't have to repeat uh what I did before, but I went over there and I was like, oh, I really want to shoot. I actually did, that was after the Rolling Stone call. So I did want to shoot for Rolling Stone, but I also wanted to be a musician, right? But I was like, I think it was the same year actually, because as a freshman and I was set, I went to college at 17. So I I that was that same year, and I think about it. And I was like, well, let me see. If I'm not gonna go to New York, um, let me go here and you know and learn from this guy, it's totally different. But that was serendipitous because it was walking distance from my mom. House, and sometimes my car didn't work, so at least I could still get to work. And that the guy shot me shot, taught me how to shoot all that stuff I mentioned, and I learned how to print and read negatives like in color, even though it was a machine. That the theory is the same. So I learned all that, and I think that became useful into the digital years, right? So that I I was kind of mad at myself, like, why didn't I go to New York? Why didn't I go to Rolling Soap? What am I doing at the state school? Oh no, no, wait, you wanted to play piano, but you know you're not gonna do it for a living. That's this internal battle going on.
SPEAKER_01I know that one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and then you don't realize a lot of it had to do with confidence, too, that I mentioned. I didn't have it. And so, or at least I was I innately had it, but it was kind of I was rebuilding it in a way because it was taken from me. So I in that sense, that was serendipitous to start learning. If you can shoot weddings, you can shoot anything. That is the basis of being this is the truth. That was the basis of shooting everything else. I thought I wasn't ready to go to New York. So all these things like live in live in um, I lived in Philly for a while and I hit a ceiling there. That's where the where I went to the photo store and saw how to be an assistant. As I'm reading it, before I even bought the book, I was contemplating it. A photographer came in and hired me because he said, You're a photo assistant. I said, Uh, yeah. And I got the job. So I said, Okay. Yes, yes, I am. Yeah, but I normally that wasn't really my MO. I'm so honest and like almost underplay myself and downplay myself that I was shocked that I said, but I was an assistant for weddings though. So I actually, so it was true. But he was the first commercial photographer. He did uh annual reports, so incorporated what I already knew, which was portraits, some architecture, but in a different world. So that worked. And then I thought, well, I'm not ready. Um this is like all at that time, there's more ad jobs now in Philly, but when I was there, it wasn't like that. So I was like, well, go to New York and embarrass myself or go somewhere else and embarrass myself and get better, then go to New York. I went to Chicago and I and they didn't have a whole lot of portraits there. I mean, there was like there were a few people, but they were they were hard to get to. And so most people, if they were doing portraits to do a corporate or wedding, same stuff I was doing in Philly, I said, Well, I'm gonna move here for that. So I I worked on these, like, as assistant at campaigns for product. I started working at the studios, they were all product studios there. The work was wasn't paying that well, but it was busy, and I started shooting products, and then you hit the other your own ceiling, where like, all due respect to product photographers, you guys are amazing. But for me, I'm a people person. I said, This sucks. You know, like I want to be with people, it's not what I'm doing. I wanted to come to New York, and two buildings came down right when I was trying to move here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I said, Okay. So I went to Miami as a segue to New York, which worked, but it's fashion. That's the fashion, the serendipitous fashion thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just I mean, but just so you're in Philly and and you go to Chicago. You don't just drop, you know, you know, your bags on Lakeshore Drive and say, Hello, I'm here. Um, you don't just go to Miami and say, I I'm in the fashion world now. How do you go about breaking in?
SPEAKER_03I did do that. I did exactly that actually. I was you doing oh yeah, I was broke and hungry. So I but I was already broke and hungry. I didn't have anything to lose. Oh, okay. Except I had two cats, so I did have to feed them too. So I had to figure that out. But I worked as I mentioned, remember in college, I forgot about this. Remember in college, it had like three jobs or four jobs? Yep. I wasn't joking. So I worked as a food delivery person in Philadelphia at a place, Entree Express, which is now long gone. They change the name, take out taxi. It's probably Uber Eats now. But it was like that, but you had radios, it wasn't with the cell phones, right? So I did that in Philly, even though because I was an assistant on weddings and I and I was shooting a lot of stuff, I didn't know how to ask for what I was worth. I already told you about the confidence thing. I'm sharing that a lot because it is huge. I I want other people to really, if they have, if they struggle with confidence, build it quickly and soon and throw, you know, you gotta get because it will hold you back. And and I could have, I wouldn't probably have needed extra jobs if I had the gumption to say I'm worth this much more money. And if somebody says no, go to somebody else and get them to pay you. But I didn't. So I was starving and I was working through, I had a carriage driver job, I was doing weddings on the weekends, I was doing assisting first commercial photographer, and I was delivering food at night.
SPEAKER_02My lord.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So when I moved to Chicago, I heard Entree Express had another franchise there. It wasn't really a nationwide, but they had one in Chicago. Immediately I picked up my bags, I dropped them. I literally was on Lakeshore Drive. I lived, I don't know if you know Chicago, but I lived in Bryn Mawr and Broadway, that's right off Lakeshore Drive on the north side. Yeah. So I dropped my bags and I went to Entre Express Express and said, Hey, call these guys in Philly, they'll vouch for me. Can I get a job? And I had a car, so I got a job. I started delivering for them. And then I went to ASMP. And I found out about ASMP. I think I met somebody at like a photo store, this guy, Johnny Border. He's still a friend of mine. He lives in Indiana now. But he was like, You gotta come to ASMP with his Midwest accent. Um and he said, I love Johnny. And I he was, I was like, he's so passionate about it. You know, this is my Chicago accent. That I went and made friends, some of the best friends of my life. And through that network, I started assisting on those jobs. And through that network, I started doing the product stuff. Through that network, I found out about all those studios, and it was huge. And I was like, wow, this is really great. And went to ASMP meetings. The Miami thing, I went blind. I really didn't know. One of my friends from that ASMP that I told you I made good friends, my friend Jason, he and I both worked at this studio, uh, silver lining graphics. I think it's, I don't know if they're still open, but I said, I'm done. I am not gonna move to New York yet. Between buildings came down, but I'm tired of this cold, too. I hear it's busy in Miami. We were a little late for that, unfortunately. But I was like, I was like, we missed the heyday, but I was like, let's go. He goes, We don't know anybody. I said, I put it in the bucket and let's go. So I packed up my cats, I pulled a U-Haul trailer, I met Jason down there. We found a six-month lease, got an apartment, and started hitting up all the photo labs, which they were plentiful. They had more photo labs in Miami than in Chicago at the time, at least within walking distance. At that time, I mean, that's different now. So I we took we printed out flyers, like ticker tape style, and posted them in all the labs and made friends with all the labs very quickly. Um, and then the silver lining graphics crew came down to Miami to do a shoot. They hired us. We actually made this is when we were doing like you were doing transparency films, so you'd make the call, like on the, you know, are we gonna push a quarter? Well, hopefully you don't pull, but you know, those that are in film know what I'm talking about. If not, don't worry about it. But you don't have to do that anymore. But but we usually the the director would make, or the photographer was the director, really, at that time, would make the call, but they had to go back to Chicago and they're like, we trust you guys, we've been working on you for two years. Just do it and send the film up to us. So the labs saw that. They started putting us like up on the top list for everyone that came to Miami, which no one really most of the photographers that were shooting there a lot were not from there. They're from New York, they're from Germany, they're from wherever. So they're always looking to crew up, either at least as a second, if not a first. They might bring their first assistant. So we got busy because they were they put us at the top of the list because they saw how much we were trusted.
SPEAKER_01Are are you doing your own work at this time?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was shooting, I wanted to shoot, I still wanted to do Rolling Stone, right? So I met musicians, I met with rockly enough, I think a roommate. I'm trying to remember, no, no, live. We lived in this complex, like a gated, it was not fancy though, trust me. It was a gated community, but it used to be like military housing, so it was super basic. But in there, we met people, one of them was uh like into film, another one was a photographer, another one was a musician. So through that, art hung out with a bunch of art people. So through that, I started photographing these folks, and I knew a bunch of DJs. I was into dance music, so I started and winter music conferences down there. So I was photographing a lot of the DJs and some of the musicians and making my own album covers, like because I wanted to go to New York and show that work. So I was, but it was mostly like $100 here, $200 there, or for free. So I was shooting a lot. I wasn't doing weddings down there, I was shooting music and portraits, yeah. A lot, actually. I that's when I got insurance because Miami won't let you shoot anywhere on the streets unless you have like one or two million dollar insurance policy. So I'll never forget that. I was like, well, really, I'm a grown-up now. And I got, yeah, and I got insurance because of that, because I wanted to shoot on the street. Yeah, and you could get a permit on the beach for free to shoot. Like, I had no worries with that because I didn't have a big crew. It was just me and like I think I had a generator and a lot, I don't remember, but they were like, Yeah, it's all good, you can just do that. But I needed to have that insurance.
SPEAKER_00Let's take just a quick break. We hope very much that you're enjoying today's episode. The very fact that you are listening to this podcast suggests that photography means a lot to you. And if that's the case, you might want to have a look at Frames Quarterly Printed Photography magazines. We truly believe that excellent photography belongs on paper. Visit readframes.com to find out more about our publication and use the coupon code podcast to receive a recurring 10% discount on your new Frames magazine subscription. And now back to today's conversation.
SPEAKER_01But you you were in Miami, you were also beginning to feel a little pigeonholed, you know, that you were becoming known as uh somebody in the fashion industry when that really wasn't.
SPEAKER_03That was as an assistant, yes. As an assistant, yes. Not as a shooter, because I didn't shoot fashion, I was shooting music. But most, you know, how I paid my rent was from photo assisting. And this was in, it really was in mostly catalog fashion, not even like some of the high fashion I did, but catalog fashion. And the thing was, I was trying to move to New York. These guys, most of them, when I mentioned Germany and France and all that, they came over, but they're never hiring you again. They live in Europe. You know, the folks that were in New York would come down a lot, like kind of regularly, and get to know you. And I said, hey, and I didn't stay in Miami for years on end. I stayed there for like six months, and I was like, it's time to go to New York. And my buddy was gonna go back to Chicago because the work peters out in Miami in May, it's crickets. It's I mean, it's it's dead as doornail. You might as well really March is time to kind of start thinking about leaving. But we stayed till May. We were like, oh my god, it's like it's totally dead here. So I I called up the folks that I had worked with in the fashion industry that were in New York, and I moved to New York and they hired me as an assistant. That's how I got pigeonholed because the Miami thing was so much fashion that when I came to New York, I was on the circuit.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And I was like, oh shit, now this sucks. Because I didn't come here to shoot fashion, and I didn't understand that not that you're gonna meet somebody's art director and be all of a sudden that's your client, but if you're in that world, people see you, you know, it's different. But in the fashion world, that was not the same. Uh so I kind of felt like I've wasted my time. I just I can't leave because I have to pay my rent.
SPEAKER_01And yet you wind up going a great deal west.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, that was later. That was later or east, depending on what you say.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, okay. But okay, you you okay. Tell me why did you wind up going to Hawaii?
SPEAKER_03So I got frustrated. So, I mean, the stock market, the stock market what crash, whatever, at the end of 08. Wasn't that 08? I really didn't understand what that was gonna do. I uh people got scared and I started looking around like, what's happening? And that's at the time when you said I felt a little pigeonholed as an assistant. And I was like, damn, I'm shooting. Meanwhile, I'm shooting the whole time. But I was shooting for for a couple of wedding agencies actually on the weekends too. But I was shooting for like restaurants, I was shooting anything I could. I did corporate stuff, I did, I still did music stuff, but a lot of the music seemed to be tanking. It was a different time with digital, it wasn't like it used to be. And I and the the record labels were just looked at me like we don't know you, have a nice day. Here's the door. I said, damn, you know, the work is great, but I never got a call, right?
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03Met with Rolling Stone, we love your work, but we won't pay you. And I said, This is ridiculous. You, you know, you're not even like I had shot for for another couple of other magazines, a few other magazines, and I'm like, they at least gave me something plus expenses. You won't even do that. You're way bigger. I I just I so I walked out. I said it was at a portfolio review, it wasn't in their office, but I was I right in hindsight. I probably shouldn't have walked out, but at the end of the day, you have to stand up for something. I'm like, you guys, that's just rude. You know, you could at least pay like $500. Not I'm not asking you for 5Gs. So anyway, I got really upset and the stock market, like I said, crashed. I lost work. I went to bartend. I had a lot of, oh, one of the other jobs I had was as a bartender too. So I went back to that. I started bartending at a hotel and I felt defeated. And it was probably 2009 or 10. I was like, I'm don't, it was, yeah, it was 09. I was like, I don't know what to do. I it was it was a flourishing digital tech in the catalog fashion world because of what I just told you, which isn't what I was here to do. And then I'm like, damn, I'm not meeting anybody in the world of portraits. I I came here to do like music and celebrity portraiture. This is ridiculous. And I had done some of it with some people, but not to the level, I mean, with good, really big jobs, but not regularly, right? Then I said, This is so you fast forward a little bit. I started working with Paula Resu, who's in really great advertising portrait photographers. And then I felt like I kind of, I was like, all right, I kind of made it. But some sometimes, you know, they they'll pigeonhole you still, you're the assistant, and you end up not shooting. So then 2015 rolled around. I was working with Matt Hoyle, who's no longer shooting, and I really have a lot to credit him for. He was the guy shooting all the celebrity portraits, and I felt like I'm finally here. He would talk to Bravo and he would talk to these other networks that he was shooting for, and he said, When I'm not available, you really need to call Sam. So he was pushing me, which was great. But again, this is still pretty close to after the stock market crash and not too long after 2016, which things shifted then too. So it was still a little bit rough. And then Matt was like, I'm kind of done, which broke my heart. It's because I was just like, You are the one person who's got me in my corner and you're leaving. I was like, oh my God. So I thought, how the hell am I gonna make it? I don't know what else to do. Do I even belong in New York anymore? Am I doing the wrong thing? Should I quit? And I was dating somebody that um got a contract, like an eight-month, I don't remember how long, contract on Maui. So I rented my room out. I live with roommates here in New York. I rented my room out and stayed with him in Maui off and on for like five months. And you know, you there's no, it's not New York. So it's a totally different, it's not even Honolulu. That's on a whole nother island. Might as well be in on the mainland in Honolulu because you need to get a plane to get there. There's no ferry boats. Right. So there's no city on Maui, and it was very different life. I learned how to dive. My ex, the guy who was with the time, the contract he got was to to he was an instructor at a scuba shop in Lahaina. Unfortunately, the town that burned down. But so we were staying in Lahaina at the time, and um, he taught me how to dive. And I said, I'm not gonna do this and not bring a camera down here. This is dumb. Little did I realize how expensive they are, I figured that out, but um you know, started learning that, but also started Brown Passport, uh well, the incubation of Brown Passport. I didn't really start it for like another year or two.
SPEAKER_01Well, but let's let's talk about that because you have said that you have felt called to show diversity in your personal work. Yeah, and I mean like you know, the this the sailors in Chicago and stuff. Yeah. Um, you know, that that's before all of this time, right?
SPEAKER_03No, no, this is the sailors is after.
SPEAKER_01So actually, so you go back to Chicago, okay.
SPEAKER_03No, so yeah, there was there was a book that I did. Okay, Russell Simmons' older brother, Danny Simmons, was my neighbor here in Brooklyn. And I he had an art gallery. He's not living here anymore, but he had an art gallery, and I I was like, what is this? And I no, so we became friends and all that, right? So, you know, or neighbors, friends, what have you. And at that time, I started shooting a portrait project on mixed race people because my mom's white, my dad's black. And I did, I didn't wasn't gonna get into this, but I did run into some very obvious, I was trying to play it off like it wasn't obvious, um, hurdles um being of my demographic, both as a female and being a mixed race or or black female. It was really, I was actually told that. Um, and and because you don't want to believe it, and then people are like, no, you know that's what it was. Like it wasn't speculation, it was actually what it was. Uh so that was also another reason why I left. I was so tired of it. I said, I might not actually make it, you know, because I just this is so frustrating. But the book I had was on mixed race people, a portrait book. It's called So What Are You Anyway? I have it on Blurb, but it was I asked her by his same 10 questions and then wrote excerpts of their answers over their uh photos, right? Danny Simmons had me do a book signing at his gallery in Chelsea at the time, so I did it at Rush Gallery. Thank you, Danny, for ever and uh grateful for that. Um, I didn't get a publisher. I I tried a bit, I didn't really know how to go about that and write, you know, and that's I went to Hawaii. I told you about that after all that because I was so fed up, like, I don't know how to get a publisher, I don't, it's so expensive to do this, I don't know how to get anybody to help me. I really didn't know, even though I'd been here and I had a bunch of connections, it was not, it was very hard. And so it left and thought Hawaii was so welcoming in the sense of your work is great and this and that. People weren't overscrutinizing it. I got the opposite effect happen when the work was not really the kind of work that I wanted to be shooting. I mean, no disrespect to the small businesses that I was, I was doing a lot of videos there for um, yeah. Yeah, I did, I did it then. Yeah, I was shooting small videos for like, you know, mom and pop shop businesses for this other company that paid nothing. It was, I won't say what it was, it was so low. I don't know how I was doing that, but it taught me how to edit because I had to do everything as a one-woman band. I started learning how to edit, and I would sneak my portraits in here and there, so I'd have something for myself. And then I thought, these guys are so grateful for this work. And I thought, oh, it's good, but I could do better. And I thought, well, damn. Well, when I came back to New York, I had a totally different body of work to show. It was also at a different time, it was 2015. Um, but it was why I say that is because uh not too long after that, the things started changing in the US. Um, you know, you had you had uh Black Lives Matter that was out. You had people started a conversation that really was kind of dropped off somewhere in the 70s, you know, where it was really up in the 60s and they kind of dropped the ball in the 70s, and I kind of suffered through all that, and then they they they picked it back up, and I was like, man, I hope, I hope, you know, I'm I'm like not 18 anymore, but I hope that I could still be seen after all the work I've done. People did start looking a bit. It wasn't enough, but they did start looking just a bit at that time. And and that was when I was really starting to do a little bit more on Brown Passport. Like I didn't really see black divers when I was in Hawaii, so I interviewed one person there. That same boyfriend I had got a job in Indonesia. So then I did the same thing there. I was like, well, this seems to be getting attention, and I I still feel a little stuck in New York, so I'm just gonna go to Indonesia instead of Hawaii with him, which was I could stay there longer. I couldn't, I couldn't work there, I didn't have a work permit. And anyway, the work wouldn't have paid me any money to get for a plane ticket. So I went with some some debt doing that, but um, I rent, you know, I didn't have my New York expenses, like right. So I rented my place out. So I was like, okay, and you didn't need a car there. I got a motorbike for like five bucks a day, you know what I mean? So it was something that I could do for a month or two at a time and then come back and hustle my butt off and work. Save, save, don't go out, don't do anything, don't even buy drinks, and then go straight over there and then use miles on the airlines to get there. And I did, and the flights were way cheap, way less expensive than they are now. I wouldn't say cheap, but they were way less money than they are now. But that really was what became Brown Passport because you don't see, like you said, diversity, it was a big thing. I didn't definitely didn't see it in the industry that's changed now, right? Not to where it should be, but it's definitely gotten a lot better. But I didn't see it a lot out in the travels either. I just was like, why am I the only one on this scuba boat? Why am I the only one like out here in like in Indo? I was like, there's all these Westerners out here, there's plenty of Americans. Where are all the black folks at? And we do go, and Instagram started picking up more, and you see that a lot more representations. We are out there. And it But it became a thing. There's like black travel movement, there's all these things because it was like again, representation does matter. When you see someone like that, like if I had seen somebody, let's say, when I made that call, a Rolling Stone at 17, uh, I don't know, it might have made a difference. I might have shown up instead of being scared and being like, I'm not good enough. I'm serious, or they don't want me.
SPEAKER_01You know, I'm uh yeah, I'm just chuckling be at the transformation because you know you you talking, you know, confidence issues um early on, and yet here you are now. I mean, you're swimming with sharks. Come on. Yeah, yeah. You know, you know, confidence issues have seem to you're not a you don't appear to be an adrenaline junkie.
SPEAKER_03No, I'm not at all. I will not be jumping out of a plane. That's not happening.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's funny. I I'm actually a private pilot and I won't jump out of a plane.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_01Um but but you the the I mean the confidence had to in your own artistic ability, your own artistic vision um has certainly come into full bloom here. Um I'm I'm really intrigued. I mean, Brown Passport, you describe it as a blog conversations, and it's not just race. I mean it's race, culture, faith, and gender. Correct. Through through the framework of travel. Correct. Um and and why why does travel provide the framework for your particular take on those conversations?
SPEAKER_03Travel is the bus that drives a conversation.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03As as I see it. I now traveling, not um okay. So I guess the technical term of traveling could be anybody, you know, getting on their feet or on a bike or anything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh so I should specify a little bit more into detail, and I don't mean like um you by all means stay at an all-inclusive or do whatever or do the regular tours. That's great. At some point, why are you doing the same why are you doing the same thing you're doing at home? Why are you gonna go to go somewhere and have the same drinks that probably don't even taste as good as they do in your hometown? All right, and they cost more. Why are you doing that? Just because they have a beach or because they have a slopes or they have mountains? Get to know what it is that you're going to. Um, so going to Hawaii, you know, I didn't see, as I said, I didn't see a lot of black folks. And when I did, they notice. They look at you and they're like, yo, what's up? You get a head nod. I used to go to Burning Man all the time. I had that there too. I was always like the first person out, like in this, in the, you know, I'm not there's many of us that did that, so it's not just me, but I mean, you feel like that when you're looking around and you're the only one in the room. So Burning Man had like at the time when I went, you know, 28,000 people and I could count on my hand how many of them were black that I saw. I was there for a week. Really? Yeah, in 99 when I went 99. So it's different now. But and now there's a lot more people too. But I I, you know, I was just like, where are all these folks at? Why are we not? So it was an interesting thing. I'm like, well, do we camp? Do we hike? Do we we do just again without overt representation? And you look at they've changed it now, but you look at magazines from before, they weren't showing us. It wasn't like a lot of us, it wasn't on our radar, a lot of us. And some it was, but it's not to the great degree that maybe, oh, you you're gonna you play basketball, don't you? Or oh, you you know what I'm saying? Like you're put in the corner. We have changed, and that's great. Things have shifted, but it takes a long time for that really to show up. And I mean a long time. Um, so I you mentioned though that I don't just do this on on race. I don't. Um traveling as a female, there I say gender. Um, I had um someone very close to me um who's trans when I was going through uh Qatar, I was talking about being in Doha, and they're like, wow, I don't think I'll ever really go there because I don't feel safe. I felt compelled to have that as a topic because I'm like, this is a perspective that we need to share. This is something that people maybe should think about. Not maybe, they should definitely be thinking about, like safety for others. You know, think about somebody besides the one you see in the mirror.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's what it's about. It's really like, and it's from traditionally marginalized, underrepresented perspectives.
SPEAKER_01That that's what I meant at the beginning by by just being so impressed by by doing good with your work. But are you are you, you know, the stuff in Qatar or the the skiers or the sailors, are these your self-assigned presents?
SPEAKER_03Uh the skiers thing was a twofer, but yes, they're self-assigned. Yes. So I, as I mentioned, started kind of with, well, not just with divers. It was starting because I was looking around. I really was looking for Hawaiians and black folks when I was on Maui. I was like, I'm just gonna be very frank here. I looked around, I was like, this is Hawaii. Why are there no I said, okay, maybe not a lot of African Americans. It's not the same as like slave. I was really thinking about this, like there's no remnants of the that I'm aware of of the African slave trade on Hawaii, there may be, but I don't I don't know of it. Um, and so I said, that makes sense if there's not a big population, you know, uh here that made it here. I get it, at least on Maui, right? But I was like, well, what about the travelers? And you know, that's a little strange. Why aren't we here? They go, but it's just not in the same like numbers or percentage, right? But then I'm like, but it's Hawaii, where are the Hawaiians? And that seemed to be not segregated, like I'm not talking about Jim Crow style segregated, but it just seemed a bit separate. And I thought, you know, and you see that in not just there, you see that in places across the globe. I understand, but it just felt less comfortable to me. And I was like, I really want to know, I'm in Hawaii, like what about the actual Hawaiian culture? Not the luau that the so-and-so hotel is showing. What about the real thing? What's going on? Or is that even a thing anymore? Or what just real local culture? And I thought I want to hear from folks that are from the places that I would go to. So when I was in Indonesia, I hung out in a village, you know, and had a translator somehow got lucky, talk about serendipitous, and was talking to folks. And and what's that like there? What what is how do they feel about Westerners coming? Or how do they feel about, you know, do they see black travelers? Do they see, you know, how do they feel about LGBTQ? All these things. Like just what's that like there? Not something that my perceived notion of it is, but I want folks from there to tell me.
SPEAKER_01And the personal work has led to um more corporate work, more you know, more clients.
SPEAKER_03It didn't call on you. Actually, it did, yeah. That actually kick-started quite a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, which which is, I mean, that that to me is something that you know, trust trust in your own vision is is something that we all battle with, uh, especially when the clients are not there early on. Um, you tell a story, I mean, going back to confidence, um, you had a client wanted you to do something with some surf, um, and you said no because you know you didn't feel safe. So tell me about now having the personal authority to look at your clients and say, you know, great idea, not for me.
SPEAKER_03I don't know when that happened. You know what? Probably it happened when I started diving. Okay. I I I don't know that for sure, but I'm trying to think because I learned how to swim and I started diving three two months later. So I think yeah.
SPEAKER_01What were you saying about confidence, Samantha? Come on.
SPEAKER_03Well, I guess what I'm saying. I guess innately I've always had this strong sense of confidence, but I grew up with a military father, and um as lovely as he was, there were also some concerns. I'll say that. That um in the way that he handled things, it was very, it could be very overbearing, and it could um it could easily rip the confidence uh right off right up from underneath of you. It could easily make you think, you know, yes, sir, no, sir, I can't, I don't, I am not allowed to make decisions. I can't do this, I can't do that. I'm not so uh, and I'm not blaming the army. Uh it's it's it was a perfect storm there, but it was it was you know, there were some concerns. I'm just gonna yeah, and so that took a long time to get out of, but but it doesn't mean that innately I probably that I didn't have confidence like that I was born with. I think I was, and maybe that's why I he was so hard on me because he kind of he took it away from me in a way, you know. But I I you know, you're a kid, it happens, but yeah, um it is so those things, it was just like I really wanna, I feel like it's a handicap. I wanna get in the water and I want to bring a camera. Well, I'm gonna take some swim lessons and learn how to dive, and now I have two housings and I'm a dive master. I got that in Indonesia, but um, and you know, like you said, it's uh with sharks. I was in Hawaii, it's there's some tiger sharks, and I my one of my dive buddies, Christina, she kept she's gonna listen to this. It's funny. She's like, Why are you so afraid to see a shark? Oh, I hope we see a shark. I was like, girl, don't jinx us. What's wrong with you? I don't want to see a tiger shark. Are you smoking rocks? Like, what are you doing? Don't scare me, don't freak me out. And I thought, this is silly. She's got like a thousand plus, God knows how many dives. She's an instructor. And I was like, I need to get this figured out. So I said, Let me go dive with a bunch of sharks on purpose. So then I'll feel safe. I know I'm gonna see sharks. Don't ever say that on a dive, but I knew 100%. It was, you know, I said, All right, let me go. And let me bring my camera, and there were like 50 in the water or something, and so I went, okay, I'm good. Yeah, I was like, all right, I got it. Okay, that's cool. So that that and it helps in your career though, in a way that I didn't realize. That's why I said I think diving had a lot to do with it. Um, and plus being innately having already that trait. I just had to actually shake off what or bring get find back what was kind of um I don't want to say taken from me, but kind of uh a little bit.
SPEAKER_01You also, I mean, you you sell a vision, you sell an aesthetic, you sell a philosophy, but you also sell um a technical expertise. And you talked about reading color negatives early on. Shooting underwater is a whole different technical skill. Yeah. Um, I mean, and it's not just the housing, you know, and then different buttons. It's a complete different understanding of light. Yes. Um, and and it can get washed out, it can be murky. I mean, it's just how do you go about keeping yourself technically at the level of expertise, you know, that clearly you're at?
SPEAKER_03I'm not, I've I've always done that. I I've again I was an aspiring pianist in a way. So I learned it's a different tech, but you learn certain things about it. Um, with this, I was a digital tech for a long time. I still once in a while will go out and be a tech for somebody, either on a motion shoot or on still shoots. And it's very, very technical, and that transcended to being able to do these things in the water. I've I was on, there's a feature documentary out now about Allie Truett. I think it came out a few months ago, and I think it's just still debuting in some of the festivals. Um Stronger Than You Think, I believe is the name of it. And and they I there's a um a DP who I know, Jendra Jarnigan, um, very, very well known. She she was gonna shoot the she was shooting the underwater, some underwater scenes in this New York area for that film. Just the underwater stuff. They had someone else on the film they were collaborating with for the topside stuff. And so Jendra had me as her tech, her underwater tech. Because I mean, that it's just it's known. Like I just get into it really. And that putting the housing together for like an Ari, this is a whole nother thing. You know, yes, a lot of bits to that. But I really get into it. If I'm gonna do something, I don't want to know a little bit about it. I want to know the whole thing. If I'm gonna shoot video, I want to know how to edit. I might not sell myself as an editor. I don't think I'm the, you know, I definitely don't really do graphics. I'm a good editor, but not with graphics and all that. But I do feel like, and as a director, the more you know about something, the more you're able to communicate to your team because you understand what they're doing. It's not foreign. I feel like that's important. You need to know at least something. You don't have to be an expert grip or an expert tech or an expert this, but you need to, I think you really need to know something. As a photographer, you really need to know your lighting. You really need to understand. And there's some that they know the concepts, but they don't know how to use the lights. But for me, I want to be hands-on. So when it comes to technical stuff, I'm very much that. I don't know where that comes from.
SPEAKER_01That that is fantastic because no matter no matter where you are in in the creative stream, but I mean, if you know what happens downstream, that affects what you're gonna do today. And if you know what happens upstream, you know, you know what you're gonna get. Um and then so we do need to know the whole process, even though our part of it might be uh you know more defined. Um in the few minutes we got left here, I I really got to ask you something that I just I smiled at and I took it to heart um when I first started doing some research. And that's the the tagline you've got straight up front. I make things gorgeous. Um that's that's generous. I mean, that that's you're you're not I'm here to indict the world and burn it down. Um, you know, you you you are not, I mean, you are creating beauty. Um tell me where the line came from and tell me what you mean.
SPEAKER_03I was talking to one of my best friends. I'm gonna say her name if it's okay, Ella Nemkova. Yeah. She um she works in advertising, actually, and she's a um a copy editor, you know, or more than that, a lot more understatement. But she was at the time, like when I first met her many years ago. Um, she's a lot, you know, this anyway. She we were discussing it at depth, like what would be a good tagline. And I don't remember she it it came up with the line, but I don't remember what the inspiration was, other than oh, I know I photographed her actually. She did she's gorgeous anyway, to me. And I'm like, I say that a lot. Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous, you're so gorgeous. And so I think that's where she got it from. You could just I probably got that from working in fashion, like these fashion guys. Okay, yeah. So I know I can think of three people in particular who I got that from. And she's just like, Well, you make things gorgeous. I said, Yeah, I do, I do, and so that it just kind of stuck. I mean, I don't know if it's that deep, but it just kind of stuck and it seemed to work. All these other things we tried, it was like, nope, no, no, no, no. That's it. That it's cute, it's fun, it's funny, and it's honest, it's genuine.
SPEAKER_01And you can apply that to every single bit of your work, from the technical skill to Brown Passport to the film work that you I mean, just there is an intent there, um, which I find really, really compelling. Samantha, thank you. I I'm a great fan of your work. Uh, the stories are fantastic. I have enjoyed this conversation immensely.
SPEAKER_03I have too. If I might have two seconds to mention the Brown Passport thing in closing, it's I have it on YouTube. I am pitching it um to other places, but um, the crux of it is now on YouTube more so than the website. So it's youtube.com backslash brown passport. Obviously, the still images are on the website, but the the the crux of it now has turned into a show, like you said, like in travel and interviews and then and different experiences. And you get to see a little BTS of what it's like to some of the tech behind the scenes and trying to get all your gear on the plane. Lord. Or, you know, it's it's things like that. Your wheels breaking when you're trying to drag your stuff up and down this uh Paris metro. Um, so stuff like that. Yeah, and and and thank you so much.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_01Everybody go to the website, go to the YouTube channel right now. It is fantastic work. Samantha, have a wonderful afternoon. I'll talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, you too.
SPEAKER_00Frames. Because excellent photography belongs on paper. Visit us at www.readframes.com. That's readframes.com.